As the news conference, ISU and IOC announce French judge got suspended, therefore, her score was thrown out in the calculation of pair skating. This makes the CANADIAN COUPLE win the gold!!
Congradulation to the canadian couple as well as ISU and IOC for their courage to make the judging more transparent.
Location: San Diego, CA USA
quote:I can see the headlines now for the first Olympic dancesport event....
"Winner overturned after discovered they had been coached by five of the judges 10 years ago"
"Runner-up overturned after discovered that they teach at a studio owned by one of the judges"
"Third place overturned after discovered that they teach the children of one of the judges"
"Fourth place overturned after discovered they were North American and the American media objected to such a low placing and ran days and days of hate press"
I say bah humbug to the poor sportsmanship of the Canadian authorities. A result is a result, if you won't abide by the rules, don't play!
Location: Maryland, U.S.A.
To be clear, an additional gold medal was awarded to the Canadian couple. Therefore both couples now have gold medals.
The results of the Pairs was not 'overturned' and, according to how ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta answered some questions, the French judge's scores were not merely thrown out. Rather, after some deliberation, it was decided to award a 2nd gold medal to the Canadians.
I'm watching a tape of the news conference right now. The heads of both the IOC and the ISU are both speaking and answering questions. Here are some highlights:
(What follows is a paraphrase, with some direct quotes, from ISU head Ottavio Cinquanta.)
ISU has information and evidence regarding the judging, so last night around 9:45 SLC time they had a meeting. The entire ISU council was there for the debate. They made the decision to immediately suspend the French judge. The council felt it had enough evidence to say that she was guilty of misconduct, with the result that all the skaters were not judged fairly. Then the committee deliberated and decided to "make the result equal" between the two pairs, even though this "is not according to ISU rules. This was an extraordinary deliberation of the ISU in the presence of a really extraordinary situation."
When asked what the evidence against the French judge was, Cinquanta only said that she is guilty of misconduct and acted in a way that was not adequate to guarantee equal consideration in the judging process. Cinquanta did not say who came forward and said what.
Cinquanta was asked again, by a French-speaking reporter, as to what the proof of all this was -- and why did the ISU simply not discard the French judge's vote. Cinquanta said that he is not going to give any details of the discussions and the evidence so as to protect the atheletes and the judges.
Then a reporter tried asking the head of the IOC what the evidence was against the French judge, and the IOC President handed the question back to Cinquanta, who again said basically nothing other than that they felt they had enough evidence to believe that the judge was pressured into misconduct. He would not give any more details.
Cinquanta was asked point-blank if they had evidence that it was the French figure skating association who put the pressure on the judge. Cinquanta said "at this moment we cannot say any more." In answering another question, Cinquanta went on to say that the investigation is not concluded and they need more time.
The question was raised if decisions of the past, specifically LLoyd Jones in Boxing in Seoul, will be opened up and re-investigated. The IOC President said "we've dealt with the problem of the day, we'll see tomorrow how we'll deal with other problems."
A British reporter asked how this has embarassed the IOC and if the ISU would be punished. The IOC said it couldn't have embarrassed them because it was an ISU issue, and the ISU acted quickly to rectify the situation.
Cinquanta, asked point-blank if there was evidence of Russian involvement, replied that there is no evidence of Russian involvement.
A French-Canadian reporter asked how much public opinion had to do with the decision. Cinquanta replied that public opinion pushed the ISU to make a decision quickly rather than delaying (originally they weren't even going to meet to talk about it until the 18th). That's all Cinquanta said on this subject.
A French reporter from Le Monde asked if the ISU committee spoke to the French judge. Cinquanta said that they made their decision based on a written statement made by the French judge. In another question, Cinquata stated that he interviewed the French judge in the presence of other ISU officials, and that from that a written statement was prepared, which the judge signed. (By the way, the judge in question went back to France yesterday.)
The IOC President was asked if public opinion brought about the decision to have the Canadians share the gold, and he said that the decision was made out of a sense of fairness to the atheletes, not due to public opinion.
Cinquanta says there is no evidence of pressure coming from the French Skating Federation on the French judge. In answering another question, Cinquanta said that it is an ISU rule that if a judge gets pressured to vote a certain way, they must immediately report this to the Referee of Judges and to the head of the ISU. The French judge did not report this right away, and so that is the misconduct rule under which they have suspended the French judge.
An American reporter asked for how long the French judge will be suspended for. Cinquanta replied that she has been suspended for the rest of the Olympics, and then there will be an ISU meeting where the final duration of this judge's suspension will be discussed.
There some other questions. I just picked the questions that seemed more interesting/easier for me to transcribe to write down here.
[ 02-15-2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Laura La Gassa ]
quote:Now this makes me laugh. Poor sportsmanship?
So vote swapping is within the rules?
I believe appeals are within the rules.
What's funny is that the French didn't play by the rules nor did the Russians. Let's see what
place the French come in tonight.
If anything the Russians should be given the Silver now, but, we don't want to make them cry now do we? After all, they did skate a ballet style routine rather than the boring routine the Canadians performed.
Question: How the hell do you judge this sport?
Answer: You vote for the Western nations if you are from there. If you are from an Eastern Bloc nation you vote for them.
quote:I'm confused. My sense of fair play tells me that if a judge voted a certain way because of political pressure, then this amounts of not "abiding by the rules" and is certainly far more egregious than the Canadians complaining about the result.
Location: San Diego, CA USA
quote:I guess my view is that everyone who takes part in the event knows that the result is determined by a bunch of people expressing their opinion. If you aren't willing to abide by those opinions then surely you shouldn't take part?
From the great posts I've read on here it seems like the two pairs have been split by only one or two judges for the last year. One would expect a close decision so why cry foul when you get one?
Of course in this particular instance we know in advance that the Eastern judges will go for the Eastern couples, and the Western judges for the Western couples. So, again, you know this going in to the event so why get upset when it happens?
[Its just like the Eurovision Song Contest, except much less painful to listen to]
I find it the same in dancing. If you believe you can't go to the Ohio Star Ball and get a fair result then don't go. Don't go and then complain about the judging - by your very attendance I believe that you are saying you agree to abide by the results.
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
quote:Since when is a coerced (or bribed) official expressing their honest opinion? This is no different than politicians who voted certain ways to appease threats from gangsters.
[ 02-15-2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: B. McClinton ]
I posted in the other thread about the pairs skating controversy and repeating here ... tendancer2000, you can go read my response.
The most important issue is that there must be a sense of a level playing field. If results are achieved independently, and there was not fixing, then I can see your point.
The fact is that there was clearly an immoral act done by those in positions of power (French judge and others) to attempt to fix a result, before the competition. This is clearly immoral and wrong, and sets a bad precedent towards the whole issue of sportsmanship, morality, ethics.
Competitors go into a sport, knowing that it is a judged sport and can live with it. In all the interviews that I have seen with the Canadian skaters, they have not complained against their fellow competitor, the Russians, only their disappointment at the results, but that they accepted their silver result. In another interview, they had even said they did not expect the decision to change and would move on.
If the IOC had allowed the result, in the presence of "real proof" (not just hearsay and innuendo, with no proof), then I could have agreed with you to some extent, even if I disagreed with the result. But when there was proof of mark fixing and collusion, then clearly, it is better to try to FIX the system and prevent this from happening in the future, than to "ACCEPT" it and allow this to happen.
There are also millions of young people participating in the sport - it would have sent a wrong message that they should "accept" a morally wrong system and live with it, rather than to try to change a system to make it "right".
Bravo, again, to the IOC, to the Canadian team. In no way do I also take away from the Russian their wonderful dancing, but I like everyone else, witnessed the live event would have also marked them to win. I think it is incorrect to say that people with my opinions were "brainwashed" by the media -- I am an intelligent person, knowledgeable about skating, and I can make my own decisions. My decision is that they deserved to win, and the Gold medal award was the right and just thing to do. And that competitors, especially the youth, have great role models in the Canadians, and will be empowered with the belief that they can help change a wrong system, not merely accept it.
Why does everyone seem to forget that the RUssians also won the short program, thus making them accumulatively the winners.
If the Olympics were not held in North America, this would not be happening. Case in point, the reporters at press conference that were from Europe had some rather interesting questions. As far as people saying that the whole world agrees with the decision. Paleaseeeee. THe media did had a lot to do with it. And frankly, I think that everybody concentrating on the French was so predictable. When I watched the results, that was the first thing I said afterwards. I feel bad for the French judge and sure enough that 's what happened. Because how could the French capitalistic system go with the former eastern block countries.
I say, Whatever. I don't even think that Judge was influenced. Something smells funny.
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