I have had the same experience with room charges for teachers and their partners/spouses with both teachers that I have had. While it doesn't seem quite right to pay the full cost of the room, it seems to be the prevailing practice so it hasn't been something that I have chosen to quibble about. Both have been very reasonable with passing on their other expenses, and there are often other students to help split the costs.
However, if the partner has her/his own students along then I think that each partner's students should only have to split their teacher's half of the room cost.
quote:Originally posted by DancingJools: Diva: you don't find any difficulties in switching between teachers for different, and not too far apart comps? It seems to me you need to get used to each other, to "build a partnership" of some sort, and that requires time and (many) lessons. Also, don't you worry about having bad feelings with a teacher when he sees you switching between him and someone else (unless they both work for the same studio, I suppose). I mean, teachers also become "invested" in their students, or at least the good teachers do, but only toward the students that they feel are invested in them in return, and this connection becomes a factor in the dancing. Or is it just me?
No, I think you bring up a good point. However, my most recent experience with a teacher made me feel the only investing that was done was when he needed $$$. I respect the one teacher's wishes. However, I am the consumer and well I think things will work out well. The two teachers are in different cities. I live in a city that's between the two.
I know, it seems crazy, but I'll just have to hope it works out. I'll let you know
quote:Originally posted by Chel: However, if the partner has her/his own students along then I think that each partner's students should only have to split their teacher's half of the room cost.
Or, more easily, the students of both partners pool together and split the room. That way you don't have the case where one partner brings one student and that one ends up paying for half the room while the other brings three students and they end up each paying for 1/6th of the room. In other words, all four students each pay 1/4th the price of the room. I think that's actually how my teacher used to do it.
quote:Originally posted by DancingDiva:The only thing I don't agree with is that fact that his girlfriend and pro partner gets her "share" of the room they have for free. Maybe I'm being silly, but I think she should pay one half of the costs. DancingDiva
if the girlfriend/partner was not there, you would be payig 100% of his room since he would not be dancing pro. this way you are only paying a portion. i think you are getting off easy and cheap.
quote:Originally posted by DancingDiva:The only thing I don't agree with is that fact that his girlfriend and pro partner gets her "share" of the room they have for free. Maybe I'm being silly, but I think she should pay one half of the costs. DancingDiva
if the girlfriend/partner was _not_ there, you would be payig 100% of his room since he would not be dancing pro. this way you are only paying a portion. i think you are getting off easy and cheap.
Actually, let me clarify. If I were to go on this one trip with the teacher. I would have to pay for the WHOLE room cost EVEN if his partner and girlfriend is there.
So cheap? Um...$1000 is NOT cheap to me when a comp could cost me for the one I'm thinking of, close to $3,000 (It's out of the country)
What you really need is to get another of his students to go, or one of her students to go, then you can split the cost of the travel expenses.
OR, you could just tell your teacher "I know I've been talking about going to this thing for months and months now, but I just can't afford it under the pricing scheme you've set. About the only thing I can do that will help is to just pay for your half of the room. If that's not acceptable, then I really can't go."
I mean really, what is he going to do? Force you to go into too much debt to pay for the dance competition? I know it's combined with a vacation -- but you can go to Montreal on your own without the dance comp and save tons of money that way.
So who knows...he might agree, or not. But if he doesn't agree, don't be suprised, because what he has proposed is quite common so you can't use that as an argument.
quote:Originally posted by Laura: What you really need is to get another of his students to go, or one of her students to go, then you can split the cost of the travel expenses.
OR, you could just tell your teacher "I know I've been talking about going to this thing for months and months now, but I just can't afford it under the pricing scheme you've set. About the only thing I can do that will help is to just pay for your half of the room. If that's not acceptable, then I really can't go."
I mean really, what is he going to do? Force you to go into too much debt to pay for the dance competition? I know it's combined with a vacation -- but you can go to Montreal on your own without the dance comp and save tons of money that way.
So who knows...he might agree, or not. But if he doesn't agree, don't be suprised, because what he has proposed is quite common so you can't use that as an argument.
Actually I'm not even worried about it. I have a different teacher that I will work with for the other comp. I can understand his point of view. I don't have to agree with it but I can certainly understand it.
So sometimes in life, it's easier to go around a problem rather than beat your head against the wall. Do you agree?
But on a closing note, at least I know the one teacher's fees are pretty much normal and I'm okay with that. I'll probably go to comps with him when he has several students going and besides, the one I'm going to with him is in Las Vegas. In Las Vegas there's LOTS to do!
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Laura:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Joe: If your teacher is competing at the comp with his pro partner/gf it's not fair to put the entire cost on his students. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the entire cost, just the room. It's common practice for the students to pay for the teacher's room and then if the teacher brings his partner then she stays there. She still pays for her own plane tickets and other expenses. I'm just saying that this one isn't worth arguing over. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's all well and dandy, but if his students have to pay for his transportation to the comp (if he's doing pro entries) it ain't right. If they have to pay for his per diem for days he's going to be there anyway, it ain't right.
I agree with Joe. It's not right to have students paying 100% of the teacher's room and other expenses if the teacher is competing in the pro events with his partner for the same comp. He has to compete for this event anyway no matter if there are pro-am students going or not. My pro-am teacher told me that if I compete pro-am with him for same competition that he competes with his pro partner. I only need to share one-half of his room and other expenses. If he has other pro-am students going, I would be sharing his one-half of expenses with other students.
I think you are all getting a bargain, whether or not the room fee is split. Both my previous teacher and my current teacher charge a hefty daily fee on top of the expense fees to make up for being away from the studio. I am assuming all of your teachers are independents who rent space rather than have their own studios???
Anyway, I think the bottom line is ROI (return on investment). No matter what is being charged, the question is: Is it worth it to you to pay that amount for the experience that you are going to have with that teacher?
I nearly drove myself crazy with my former teacher trying to convince myself that his fees were fair. Then for various reasons, I switched teachers and now pay even higher fees to compete. I rationalize it that I want to learn competitive dancing and the only way I have been able to find a 'good' teacher willing to teach me seriously is if I am willing to compete with him and pay his fees.
I just recently added up what I have spent on dancing this year and almost had a heartattack. But then I said to myself, if I had that money in the bank now instead of having spent it on dancing this past year, would I be as happy? Since the answer was no, I'll keep on paying the fees and wishing that there was a good teacher in my area who charged less. I don't think there is.
Hi Girls (of course it IS only girls on this thread... ),
Just joined the net - I'm up in Toronto (yes its cold, no its not snowing...at the moment) and about to do my fourth competition in Int. Standard (the Falls comp in Niagara - anyone else going?). I lay in my bed and read through this thread (couldn't resist that!) and, have, of course, had to deal with the same issues. Here's my two cents: Its only solely 'as the market can bear' as long as we leave it so. What we underestimate is that our dollars are making it possible for the professionals to both make a daily living and go to competitions. I know that this is not true of all (my current teacher is a sweety for example) but I have little doubt that many of them see pro-ams simply as cash cows - pathetic women who will pay anything in order to get their moment of vanity. I stress that this is not true of all. What we lack is a set of 'normal' fee structures - what should and what should not be paid for. Personally, I see pro/am as a very serious sport - in some ways its more challenging than pro/pro (darn it I am trying to keep up with a full time competing professional) or am/am (unlimited free practice). If we could get our acts together and form a real group/organization WE could set the norm for billing practices.
As highlighted in the thread before me, here are my suggestions to a start for such a list with respect to billing we need: 1. Reasonable fee rates for each dance. - these should decline with numbers of entries. 2. Establish the principle that other costs of the trip are split between competitors (whether this should be split by numbe of entries should be considered. 3. Establish the principle that if the pro is also competing, he/she pays half of the travel costs (after all, you are already paying their income in your lesson fees...). 4. I believe it should also be the case that if and when the competitor becomes successful s/he starts to contribute to the status of the professional. At this point the fee structure should go down. I realize that this may sound surprising - but once you succeed you start to attract more students to the pro - and this should have a real value to the Am.
I think we are acting too much like victims. Pro/Am is coming of age (we're at Blackpool for goodness sake) and at its best it is a partnershp like any other. It should not be what it too often is, an excuse for scalping.
Nothing like stepping into a room quietly is there! I'm really not that brash - or revolutionary for that matter...
