Quote: Separate events for male/pro and female/pro? Yes Yes Yes!! I am SO for that! Why have 'unfair' competition? Or even any competition at all? And, especially, why be compared to someone who dances more than the 2 hours a week you do?
We can add these divisions to the other 300 divisions that will help keep proam people from any real competition - such as 'open gold A2' or the ever popular 'open silver B1'.
This will assure the proam dancer of a 2 couple or 3 couple heat - it's waaay too crowded out there with more couples, right? And allow the ultimate goal - the ability to come in in the 'top 3' of your 'category' to be achieved ("Yeah, I placed first and second in all my events").
Maybe they'll name an award after you at one of the big comps. After all, you'll have increased the 'entries' and you'll have moved your teacher ever closer to the real award at a proam comp - top teacher.
<Sigh> Thanks for that septic tank of 'witty prose' Walt Whitman Jr.
As a guy who does both Pro-Am and Am-Am, I've always wondered why in Pro-Am events, I was being judged against female ams as opposed to just other male ams
My reasoning is two fold. First off, how exactly do you judge if my amatuer leading is superior/inferior to a gal's amatuer following? The technique involved can be fundamentally different depending on the move.
Secondly, regardless of how many hours I pound away practicing, there will always be a tremendous difference in my ability to lead my pro (an absolutely fantastic one IMHO) vs. female am being lead by, say, Michael Mead, Eddie Stutts, Randy Ferguson, Ben Ermis, etc. That's not a complaint I'm making, that's just a fact.
Given those two points, I always trot onto the floor in Pro-Am events understanding, but not really agreeing with, the fact that I'm being judged apples/oranges against a female am.
Now I see why someone said the couple is being judged in the scholarship events. It still seems biased in the female student's favor, but not impossible. If the man has a good dance teacher, she will dance perfectly to his lead and allow him to do his best work. Yes, Ben and Ruthie would be hard to beat, but they really work at it. Ruthie doesn't dance with an am partner and she takes a lot of lessons with Ben. I think if there were men students as dedicated as Ruthie and had the opportunity to dance with the teacher as much as she does, the guy would have a chance.
Ruthie is better than many of the competing pro women I have seen. But she probably gets more time with Ben than most pro women get with their partner. She has achieved a very high level. So for the man to win, he has to be better than many of the competing pro men as well.
I don't know what comps you all have been to that judged pro/am males against pro/am females but in all of the comps I attend, both NDCA and independent in single heats the pro/am males compete and are judged against the other pro/am males in their age/level. The pro/am females compete and are against other pro/am females in their age/level. Just because a male pro/am finds himself in a heat that has female pro/am's on the floor at the same time doesn't mean he's being judged against them - they may not even be the same age category or skill level as he is. The only time the male and female pro/am's meet and are judged against each other is in a scholarship, championship or global. As my husband and I both do scholarships we are generally able to compete against each other at comps but never in single heats. He's beat me in smooth, but never in rhythms - and he never will!!!! At one of the comps they even had a men's global - no women.
The male dancer always is the leader, it make more difficult than follower as a female dancer, think about that; I (female dancer) able to just to use my feeling to follow my Dance teacher or partner?s lead to completed our routing without open my eyes, do you think you male dancers able to do the same way? if the answer is not, then why they are judged in the same time? It is was a very interesting try out, how about you guys give a try and give us the feed back.
<LoneStarSmooths>
Posted
Quote: I don't know what comps you all have been to that judged pro/am males against pro/am females but in all of the comps I attend, both NDCA and independent in single heats the pro/am males compete and are judged against the other pro/am males in their age/level. The pro/am females compete and are against other pro/am females in their age/level. Just because a male pro/am finds himself in a heat that has female pro/am's on the floor at the same time doesn't mean he's being judged against them - they may not even be the same age category or skill level as he is. The only time the male and female pro/am's meet and are judged against each other is in a scholarship, championship or global. As my husband and I both do scholarships we are generally able to compete against each other at comps but never in single heats. He's beat me in smooth, but never in rhythms - and he never will!!!! At one of the comps they even had a men's global - no women.
Hola Pat,
The only time I've ever experienced a men's global is at Randy Ferguson's Dance Festival held here in Houston (great event & highly recommended by the way!). I remember him stating that it was the first (or one of the first) events of it's kind in the U.S.
Also, I have attended NDCA events where even in single heats I've been judged against the lady am's. Perhaps it's b/c otherwise I wouldn't've had any competition at all as not too many guys do the Pro Am circuit (at least in Smooth/Ballroom).
But even if we just focused on Scholarship events, there is no doubt that my Pro will always be at a disadvantage compared to your Pro (in this case the rocking & rolling Randy Ferguson). I like to believe that I bust my but in practice pretty often (I average 5X/week), but even if I practiced 8 days a week what are the odds that I could "outlead" Randy? I know how I would bet
That's just my humble .02 worth. Please understand that I'm not saying this to be bitter or act like sour grapes - heck I practice harder b/c of the circumstances. But in case folks wonder why most am guys don't go into Pro-Am's.... well, there ya go.
Quote: The only time I've ever experienced a men's global is at Randy Ferguson's Dance Festival held here in Houston (great event & highly recommended by the way!). I remember him stating that it was the first (or one of the first) events of it's kind in the U.S.
Also, I have attended NDCA events where even in single heats I've been judged against the lady am's. Perhaps it's b/c otherwise I wouldn't've had any competition at all as not too many guys do the Pro Am circuit (at least in Smooth/Ballroom).
But even if we just focused on Scholarship events, there is no doubt that my Pro will always be at a disadvantage compared to your Pro (in this case the rocking & rolling Randy Ferguson).
Hola LSM -
Where have you been? Haven't seen you around lately. Are you going to the USABDA at UofH this weekend?????
Anyway, I haven't seen any male v. female pro/am single heats at any of my comps. But, you are right, there is a definite lack of competition for male pro/am at most, but not all, comps. I do know that if, as in the case of a scholarship, it's close between a male pro/am and a female pro/am for a placement, the male will usually win as they allow for the difficult he has leading, it happened between my husband and me last year. He won by one point and that was the reason.
Yep, Randy's global was indeed a first and judging from the participation (since there were recalls) it was a big hit and, you did quite well in it! I think that more comps will probably follow suit in the next couple years given the success of the first one.
By the way, Randy is a rocking dancer but he isn't my pro - I dance with Ron.
I totally and absolutely agree with you on this, Chris! Tango's not about how violently a partner can pull/push you, it's about sharp movement that you have to make by yourself and match your partner. Too many people don't realize it, and that's why they ask a leader to give them more pull/push/movement, etc.. Not to mention having your own balance throughout all that! Love the Tango, it is by far my favorite of Smooth/Standard dances.
