What is the rule, if there is one, if a competitor injures himself/herself shortly before a competition, therefore not being able to compete, and they have already paid money to be in it? Does the sponsor(s) of the competition have a right to withhold money and therefore not completely return the money a competitor paid? What about money that a student paid to their teacher for the teacher's personal expense as well as money paid for each dance done with their teacher? Shouldn't a student be fully reimbursed for that as well?

I'd love to hear from other amateur competitors regarding this situation. Please respond by my personal email.

Thanks, Janice

This is a tricky situation. Every organizer has a cut-off date. If the organizer is contacted before the cut-off date then you can get all of your money back. After that date, then the organizer may give a partial reimbursement. If it is very close to the competition, then you probably get no money back. The organizer may be willing, in that case to give you a credit towards their competition the following year however. Getting your money back from a teacher or studio is another matter. Most often the teacher can refund ALL of your money you paid to them for their expenses. However, if your cost and other students costs are interdependant, then a refund to you will increase the cost to other students...not too fair of a surprise to them. So then it is a matter of personal choice by the teacher, whether to increase the other students costs to cover their expenses, or give you money back and come up short covering their costs, or simply give you a partial refund...keeping what is necessary to offset their expenses. In any situation, having a good open and honest relationship with your teacher and studio will always help everyone come out without feeling taken advantage of. Good luck.

Larinda, thanks for your response. I don't know how it works with other amateur competitors, but I've found that my teacher(s) have told me that a particular competition costs x dollars without showing me the breakdown of where the money actually goes. But I would think legally, if a student doesn't sign anything related to the competition they are competing in, say, waiving their right to reimbursement if they cancel at the last minute; then there should be a total refund. My concern is that the sponsors and/or teachers can easily take advantage of a student without the student even being aware of it because nothing is in writing. I sometimes get the feeling that teachers and/or sponsors feel that amateur students have money to burn and so they are free to charge as much as they want because they don't have to reveal where the money goes. This recent scenario has made me question whether I want to continue doing competitions or not, especially given the fact that these mpetitions (even locally) are so expensive and an amateur competitor just doesn't get the benefits of what they pay for, except for self-satisfaction when they place well. Can you check with other amateur competitors and see if they have run into a similar situation. And besides, where in the rules of the Dancesport organization is it written that students will pay for their teacher's expenses, competition-wise and personal (such as hotel stay, airline fare, etc.)?

Your thoughts --

First, I'm an amateur and I would absolutely not compete with a teacher who was not open about the costs for doing a competition -- be *very* wary about someone who does not want to discuss the cost breakdowns with you!

I would disagree with your idea about being entitled to a refund unless you sign some kind of waiver. You must read the refund/cancellation policy for each competition to find out what rights you have for that particular event. The refund/cancellation policy is printed in a competition's information/registration packet. If your teacher is not disclosing costs to you, then he may not be showing you these information packets (because the packets also include prices), but you must get your hands on them to make sure you understand the cancellation/refund policy *before* you agree to enter.

Since I don't know your teacher, I don't want to jump to conclusions and condemn him -- however, it *is* true that some pros do indeed charge their students exorbitant fees to do pro/am competitions. It's your job as a student and a consumer to ask questions about what they want to charge you! If your teacher won't show you the competition materials, request an information packet from the organizers and find out what the bottom line event costs are. If you find that you're being gouged for money, then find someone else to compete with.

The good news is that there are plenty of honest, ethical pro/am teachers out there. It's not cheap to compete pro/am under any circumstances, but if you work with someone who is honest, you will at least know exactly what you're paying for.

You ask about the pro's personal costs and where it's stated in the "Dancesport organization" rules that a student is responsible for them. Take this analogy: You're on vacation and you get sick. You want your personal physician to treat you, so you call him up and have him fly out to where you are. He stays a couple of days, treats you, and then flies home. Now, would you expect the doctor to pay out-of-pocket for the costs of his trip? Nope. You would reimburse the cost his trip and pay for his medical services. That's a pretty unlikely scenario, but it's the same idea with a dance pro. If he is going to a competition for the sole purpose of competing with you, then you would be responsible for the direct cost of his trip (transportation, accomodations, food), the competition costs (entry fees, admission to the ballroom), AND for his dance-related services. For many pros, "dance-related" includes a per entry dance fee and also a pro fee (usually per diem). The pro fee is designed to compensate the pro for his time -- if he hadn't been competing with you, he probably would have been teaching lessons and would have earned "x" dollars.

If your teacher has multiple students attending, then your cost burden should be reduced (at least, this is what happens when you're dealing with a reputable pro). The students attending will split many of the pro's cost components. Also, at least in my situation, when my teacher and his wife were still competing professionally and I went along to an event at which they were dancing, I was not responsible for the costs they would have incurred independent of me.

Hope this is somewhat helpful, but standard disclaimers (JMO, YMMV, etc.) apply

Janice- Larinda and Vanessa are correct in their answers, and brought up some good points. As an amateur competitor (and former student of the lovely and very talented Larinda), Pro/Am organized competitions do become costly for the student, but also for the studio or instructor participating. At our studio, the owner adds a certain percentage to the organizer's pricing structure, this includes: 1)travelling expenses-including rooms and meals; 2)lost teaching hours-studio usually closes down, as most, if not all, instructors attend with students, even if they are just spectating; 3)paying for instructor's salaries, as they are working at competitions, and not on a relaxing vacation, if anything, working harder; and other expenses that Larinda and Venessa came up with. Different packages are offered to accomadate everybody. At our studio, the comp prices seem expensive, but the profits, if any, are minimal. Our studio owner also adds meals and other time and expense saving admenaties for a less frazzled weekend, that the comp organizers don't include. Again, honesty, and a good relationship with studio/instructor should be a large factor in your competitive thoughts. My wife and I are now strictly Am/Am partners to keep our expenses down, as our expenses were doubled because we each competed with our instructors and with each other. It's a great cost cutter, especially if you just compete at Am/Am comps, collegiate comps, or an occaisional Pro/Am comp (ISTD) with unlimited entries for a minimal entrance fee- with more competition and less uncontested entries. On the other hand, I know a studio that, will remain nameless, takes advantage of their students, by pulling out of comps, and not returning their monies. What is wrong with these students that get suckered time and time again? Guess where their money is going? Good luck with your future dancing and/or competitions. If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. Len

I don't know, I think you are all paying too much. I have been competing over ten years, with several professionals who compete themselves; I have always seen the wholesale competition packets, and I have been told by my professionals that since they were going to those competitions on their anyway I should just pay a per-dance fee and a little extra sum to help defray their costs; often the pro-am event is a day or so earlier than the pro event so then they are going early just for me and my colleagues, so we feel we should cover that. I find that the more generous and supportive my teachers are, the more I am grateful to them and want to do for them. I would feel very resentful if I were charged the different sums you are talking about - actually I could never afford it. I think the difference lies in the fact that I compete with independent professionals, not a "studio" that sets policies, they set their own, and that I study with extremely generous and caring people who are not out to make money on me; in fact they have told me they just want to cover their expendses if possible, not "make" money. Be careful.I think the explanations the studios give youf ro covering lost money etc. is not believable. If they want students to go to competitions, and they do, they have to bend; otherwise they will only have rich students, which is sometimes what I think they really want. There are still honest teachers who care, look for them.. Had anyone else had my experience?

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. Guess its a matter of "buyer beware".