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| PreBronze Registered:: 07-21-2003 Posts: 12 | posted Been doing some on and off thinking the past month or two over an intriguing question, and perhaps it's time to open it up to others. Many people believe that sex is something shared as one of the benefits of a relationship, and no matter how tempting the act might be on its own, it is too much a gift of oneself to make just for temporary enjoyment. Countering their view, of course, are those who want to enjoy sex without strings attached. Compare dancing. An enjoyable physical activity, yes. But enjoyable not just in the sense of art or sport, but in the fact that it is also about sharing something of yourself with another person. Common wisdom holds that dancing is something that should be freely shared with anyone. And common expectation is that dancing comes with no strings attached. But is that really fair? If someone commits their entire purpose to dancing, is that really less than what a person offers of themselves by enganging in the modern practice of safe sex? And if it is not less, then is taking advantage of that offering, while rejecting any associated strings - fundamentally any different than using someone for sexual gratification while refusing to have any strings attached? I'm starting to think it isn't. Unfortunately, the conclusion doesn't offer a lot of solutions: I'm sure there have been plenty of 'virgin until marriage' types suffering through young adulthood with extreme sexual frustration. So I don't think refusing to dance with people who aren't interested in a solid partnership (or for that matter personal relationship) would really help things. But having tried the 'no strings' version of both, the feelings of debasement - of giving your all to the moment, but getting nothing lasting in return - are pretty similar. |
| Championship Location: Boston Registered:: 08-10-2002 Posts: 1765 | posted Dancing is dancing, and what you're sharing of yourself is your dancing skills. It's nothing personal, unless you make it so. The feelings of being used might come from the differences two people feel in what they want out of their dancing or other kind of partnership. Dunno if this makes sense. I think I'm delirious from lack of sleep. |
| Silver Location: Bostonish Registered:: 04-12-2003 Posts: 410 | posted The strings-attached verision of sex implies a commitment to your partner, not to the the act itself. Through the act you are coming closer to your partner. The strings-attached version of dance involves committing to dance. Through the person you are becoming better at dance. Not to say that there isn't commitment to the dance partner, but the dance partner isn't the focus. But in just the same way, with the sex-involving relationship it is not (hopefully) the sex you are committed to, but the person. I'm not quite sure what I was going to say about how that relates to being used... but it was a distinction that I saw and wanted to make clear. |
| PreBronze Registered:: 07-21-2003 Posts: 12 | posted Quote: It's good to be reminded of this, as it's something that's easy to forget until having it slammed in your face - I believe the usual wording is: "you're not in love with me, you're in love with the idea of having a girlfriend" But at the same time, while there's always an element of truth there, sometimes it does go further. One could also deconstruct a relationship into "you don't love me, you just want a father/breadwinner for your baby" - and while in part true, that would be no more complete. The fact is that people want each other for practical reasons - but in good relationships, they also love each other - which explains why they sometimes stick together even when the practical motives become impractical. Looking at your contrast: Quote: I'm not sure that this is really complete either. I guess there are those who dance to be good at dancing. But some of us dance for the joy of doing something like that with another person. With the right other person, I could potentially see the love/dance balance being exactly the same as the love/sex one. If we were as free with the rest of our bodies as we were with our dance frames, I think we would approach sex fairly objectively - "what's in it for me" and be fairly open about trading up if our current partner wasn't performing. I coul d easily imagine "it was nothing, just an erotic massage" said with the same detachment as "it was nothing, just a nice rumba". Wheras if we were as reserved in choosing who we dance with as we are in choosing who we undress with, we might well give the caring component more weight than the achivement one. For me, the biggest difference between sex and dancing is not in what you do or what you feel for the other person, but in that you have to come down from the high alone, rather than drifting off to sleep in the arms of your partner. One presumes connection, the other detachment. |
PreBronze Location: Boston Area Registered:: 02-03-2001 Posts: 40 | posted For me, the biggest difference between sex and dancing is not in what you do or what you feel for the other person, but in that you have to come down from the high alone, rather than drifting off to sleep in the arms of your partner. One presumes connection, the other detachment. For me, the biggest difference between the interactions of sex and dancing is what you feel within yourself. What meaning you give to either act in a particular situation (which is by no means the same every time) will probably go a long way into influencing whether or not you feel "used". I have been asked to dance many times by attractive women, but have only ben sexually propositioned once. I have accepted all dance invitations but did not accept the other one. In never felt "used" during the dances, but can't comment on the "no strings" sex since I didn't go through with it. Similarly, whether or not your partner will feel "used" is determined largely by the meaning they attach to the act, though one can influence their responses to SOME degree by being sensitive to the "messages" they are sending. The feeling of being used, in my opinion, indicates a choice, made consciously or unconsciously, to attach a meaning to your interaction while your partner did not consent to do the same. |
| Silver Location: Bostonish Registered:: 04-12-2003 Posts: 410 | posted Quote: Anything is special that you commit your entire purpose to. Many artists porduce works that they see as representing their essence and inner-being. You can love and enjoy dance and commit yourself to it. You are like the artist, except that you are your own canvas, film, marble, etc. Only your dance partner is part of that as well, in addition to you he/she is the medium of the art of your dance. You are expressing your love of dance with this person. Is the artist attached to a specific canvas, chunk of marble, roll of film? No. The artist can express the same love of art/self/life/whatever through different mediums, sizes of canvas, etc. It is not the medium that matters, but the expression. It is not the partner, but the dance. Strings-attached sex is different in that you are not only enjoying yourself, but you are simulataneously expressing your love of the person. The individual, this "medium", therefore is important, this one specific medium matters. Quote: This here is the difference. Any relationship involving love (sex, dance, friendship, etc), where one person loves and the other does not, leads to a sense of feeling used. But in a committed dance relationship love may exist, but is not implicit. Wheras in a committed relationship involving sex (strings attached), love, or other emotions in that direction, is implicit, it is part of the definition. Sorry, I am writing an art history paper right now... or at least trying to. But do I make any sense? |
| Gold Location: Boston, MA Registered:: 10-03-2002 Posts: 737 | posted Quote: Yes. That is, to me, the reason for preferring ballroom over other forms of dance - that you are doing it together with someone, rather than essentially by yourself. Quote: Indeed, I know some people who treat sex in just that way. Not for me, but it works for some. Quote: That isn't an inherent difference either ... if you are dancing with your wife or girlfriend. |
| Championship Location: Somerville, MA Registered:: 06-06-2002 Posts: 1588 | posted Quote: It might be interesting to ask some artists about that. I would not be at all suprised if some do feel quite a sense of loss at seeing their work - part of themselves - dissapear into the custody of others. I used to dabble in making musical instruments, and the few times I sold something I had extremely mixed feelings about it, and not just because the actual labor vastly outweighed the selling price. Likewise, I'm not really sure that I'm unhappy that the dance tuxedo I made for someone last year ended up being returned - customer ended up not needing it, wheras I've enjoyed wearing it myself. In the performing arts, there is a lot of documentation of performers needing (living for, perhaps literally dying without) something in return from their audience. Some treat ballroom dancing as performance for an audience, but I think I'd have to line myself up with the others who have said they treat it (and chose it) in large part for the degree to which it is something shared with a partner. |
Championship Registered:: 07-11-2001 Posts: 3144 | posted People, it's not all italics profound. Hope you're not losing any sleep over this... |
| PreBronze Location: SF Bay Area Registered:: 05-16-2005 Posts: 164 | posted This has been an issue with me also. I enjoy dancing but along with it, like the special connection one can get from dancing with a man; especially an attractive one. Dancing can be sensual, especially latin. To say that dancing is dancing and one can do it without ever feeling any attraction towards someone is being dishonest with oneself. If a person's main intent is to simply dance without having any connection with anyone affiliated with it (be it dance partner or dancing people in general), then that person needs to be honest and upfront with everyone. Then there are no hard feelings. Sounds to me though that your intention was to meet a woman through dancing. |
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